How far along were you?

“…If you don’t mind me asking.”

Actually, I do mind you asking.

Miscarriage is painful enough to have to deal with in the virtual blackout we have that means that a pregnancy doesn’t “count” until it’s 12 weeks, and even then “It wasn’t a baby” and “It happens to everyone”. (Not my words but the words that many of us have to deal with in the wake of a miscarriage… In the wake of a painful revelation to friends that we lost a baby.)

Today this happened to me and I should be okay with it. I should be used to this being the first question that people ask, but I’m not. I felt angry that I delayed answering, wondering whether I could legitimately count it as a 10 week loss because the actual miscarriage happened between 9 and 10 weeks even though my baby stopped growing after 6 and a bit. (The bit is important, to me. He/she kept going after I saw his/her heartbeat on the ultrasound, but not long enough to make it to viability.)

I felt angry with myself that I felt the need to justify my baby’s existence. That somehow my baby wouldn’t “count” because it “wasn’t a baby” and it happened in the first trimester. I felt angry because that person made me feel that I had to explain and justify my sadness over the loss of my baby. (The person being a mother of two who, I sh*t you not, actually said she had experience of “infertility” because she had to wait just over a year to conceive her first… My heart bleeds.)

I just can’t.

She went on to tell me that there was a fantastic resource that some friend of a friend had set up, to support people with secondary infertility, which is “just as painful”.

My inner monologue went on overdrive: Okay so shoot me but I just don’t accept that. I absolutely get that it sucks, but come on… Please don’t try to console me with the fact that someone [who knows someone you know] can relate to what it feels like to be forever long term, maybe forever childless because they can’t have a second child. I’m most probably being a total b*tch about this and I’m sorry (I really am sorry! Infertility sucks!) but I don’t think that the grief of never being a parent is the same as not being a parent of two. I have plenty of only child friends who vaguely wanted a sibling but who also have the most amazing relationships with their parents – and whose parents aren’t any less parents because of their one child. Infertile people are only going to get to be parents against all odds… Maybe never. Please don’t patronise us by trying to compare the haves with the have nots.

Anyway, this person was chasing me up because I haven’t been on Facebook for a while, as explained in a previous post. I’ve kind of responded to people who asked by saying I needed a break, and in some cases I explained about the miscarriage. I’m not quite up to public grief-sharing (I’m British, dontcha know) but it is kind of a straightforward way of not inviting too much further debate about the rights or wrongs of not being on FB. I liken it to the equivalent of the work explanation “women’s problems” in its abilities to get people off your back.

And yet. And yet I’m annoyed today because of this exchange. This person told me that they have a hard life too, yadda yadda, they don’t earn as much etc etc and I get that everyone has their stuff. I really do. Money stuff is stressful. (Which is why I’ve been trying so hard to get financially independent from my ex. It has taken years.) And yeah… Secondary infertility is stressful, I’m sure. I kind of wish I was in that position to feel that frustration… That my one kid could be asking me for a sibling. But I don’t have one child… And I may never have one.

It’s not a grief competition, of course. And yet… Maybe it’s natural to compare?

I know I’m not as hurt as those women who have repeatedly lost pregnancies. I know I’m not as badly off as someone who had to give birth to a dead baby, which is a grief I cannot even try to comprehend. I’ve been fortunate in many ways… I have had a privileged life (a life that started with loss but continued with giving, a whole new family that’s somehow still together even though they’re kind of crazy) and I have a good relationship and a good dog and a good job. I have barely anything to complain about and yet that one question made me feel upset and resentful, because to me it was questioning the validity of my grief.

The question was something like: How far were you along? Far enough to care that much? It happens to a lot of people. Is it reasonable to go off Facebook because you don’t want to have to keep looking at pictures of everyone else’s kids when you should have one of your own? When you don’t want to see the Motherhood Challenge or posts for Mother’s Day on what should have been your first?

And what I came to is this: Really, what right do I have to police anyone else’s sadnesses? None, that’s what. Someone else’s secondary infertility is bad to them, just as it seems an amazing luxury to me. And my “only 10 weeks” miscarriage is nothing compared to someone who’s had to cradle their dead baby after giving birth. We have no right to compare griefs and say one is worth more or less than another, because that way msadness lies. And there’s enough sadness to go around.

So the next time I feel that resentment that someone is “only” dealing with secondary infertility, I’ll remind myself that I’m “only” dealing with my life. A life that isn’t that bad, really. As it stands, I’m going to enjoy the rest of this week’s staycation and especially the time with my favourite human, T, and my favourite dog, Dog. It’s a bit colder than I’d like but it gives us an extra excuse to snuggle. We had a great day today – we went to Hampton Court (home of Henry VIII – if you ever needed a reminder that life’s not that bad, check out how his wives ended up!). 

In summary: Life’s okay – we just need to keep reminding ourselves and ignore the annoying questions! 

If I was a certain sort of person, I’d probably have to post some boastful status update on Facebook about my new job – but I think I’ll pass! Instead here are a few from our staycation visit to Hampton Court Palace. It cost us nothing as we had free tickets! Definitely worth a visit if you fancy a little day trip in London. Be warned though that you will start to feel very sorry for all the women who were unfortunate enough to be married to Henry VIII!

        

    
 

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43 comments

  1. babyangelb

    I had a family member try to compare not getting a promotion at work to the emotional pain I felt after my miscarriage. I had another family member tell me it took her two months to get pregnant and so she could relate to my struggle to get pregnant. In both cases I was internally screaming, “WTF?!?” In both cases, I am sure those situations were hard for them and I don’t discount that at all. But, the part that bothers me is when people try to compare their pain to mine. I would never do that. Even if I met a woman who had endured all the EXACT SAME life situations as mine, the same losses, and struggles, I still would never say, “I know how you feel.” Because I know that I don’t. Everyone feels things differently.

    Liked by 4 people

    • Nara

      Wow, that’s rough. I would be screaming wtf as well! I do agree that you can’t compare pain… I guess I’m trying to rationalise it in my head that everyone experiences it differently, exactly how you said. I’ve heard that some people aren’t even that bothered by miscarriage, which seems unfathomable to me. Although I am probably guilty of using the “[I think] I know how you feel” in trying to be empathetic! I suppose all this is probably why we just don’t talk about these things – it’s a minefield and there’s probably nothing you can say to make a grieving person feel better! I’m sorry you had to have those conversations. X

      Liked by 1 person

  2. mamajo23

    I am so sorry you had to deal with this level of insensitivity and am impressed you turned it into a positive perspective for you. I have written a blog post about this but let me confirm (from my opinion) that Primary infertility is far far worse then secondary. I have the perspective of someone who has experience with both. My son was conceived on my third IVF attempt after lots of heartache and I am currently 5 failed IVF cycles and two miscarriages into trying to have a sibling. Even though this secondary journey has been longer, and more expensive I would choose it a million times over the first one. I am a Mom for goodness sake. That HUGE hurdle, that so yearned for club, that title we all crave with all of our being is mine. That makes the journey for another so much more bearable. I am one of the lucky ones trying to be even luckier but not losing sight of my incredible incredible blessing and fortune. So this person can shove it :). Yes- I now know the true joy of motherhood so crave it all over again with intensity but hello, I now know the joy. Anyways-just wanted to validate this very well stated and quite classy rant. Hugs to you.

    Liked by 8 people

    • Nara

      Ah Jo, love you as ever! I was conscious in writing this that it might be offensive to you and anyone else going through secondary infertility, and I also remember your post… I really hope that the thought process came through as I can’t blame anyone else for their pain!

      Ultimately I feel that I can’t judge other people’s pain even though the natural reaction is to rail against it when you’re forced into a comparison. And that feeling of wanting to justify grief or make it sound worse because it wasn’t that far along… It’s a horrible feeling because it reminds us that there is an unspoken hierarchy and we are judged in our grief.

      Thank you so much for sharing your perspective. You are such a generous person and I’m honoured to have “met” you! Sending you love xx

      Liked by 1 person

    • Nara

      Ah, I’m okay you know. It was a momentary annoyance but fortunately I then had a nice day out! I’m thankful I have this blog to work through my thoughts and feelings. And such an amazing bunch of friends on here to support me! Thanks for being here. X

      Liked by 1 person

  3. thegreatpuddingclubhunt

    We can’t ever compare each other’s grief – we can only offer each other’s support….and that’s what I’ve learned from infertility is how to best support anyone going through any kind of hard time. Stories of ‘My friends cousins brother in law’s niece once went through this and….” NOPE just stop. It’s not helpful to anyone. I’m sorry you got those questions 😦
    I have never been to Hampton Court Palace despite living in London for 18 years!!! It does look lovely, staycations really can be fun!
    On another note, I’d really love to send you a good luck card for you next IVF cycle!! So if you are OK with that could we exchange emails? If you want to it’s dani@thegreatpuddingclubhunt.com It’s also OK not to and I perfectly understand!!!!

    Liked by 2 people

    • Nara

      Ah you’re too sweet! I’ll definitely email you. Although not sure how long the post will take! ☺️

      You’re right, support is the important thing. I think people don’t know what to say and I’m sure that I’ve been guilty of saying stupid stuff in the past. The longer I’ve been here and the more I’ve read, the more I feel that the only reasonable response is to empathise… And maybe if you have a relevant personal experience (not mother’s friend’s brother’s cat!) to share it. Who knows. It’s not an easy road to navigate!

      Ooh you should go to Hampton Court! We had a great time. Although it was stuffed full of school kids so maybe not if that’s a trigger! We live near a bunch of schools so I’m used to seeing them. Actually doing something educational appealed to me, and reminded me of my long ago history classes in school! Plus they give you cloaks to wear to get into the spirit of things, which of course we did! (Hardly anyone else did… Weirdos!) 😂

      Like

  4. Mrs T

    I was nodding along to all of this. Early miscarriages ates so isolating in their grief because others didn’t know about the pregnancy, perhaps, or didn’t care about it – definitely won’t spend another minute thinking about who the baby would have been and how old it would be at X date in the future. Also agree that secondary IF, while still upsetting, just isn’t the same as wondering if and when you’ll ever become a parent.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Nara

      Well, I don’t know if I can say how upsetting secondary infertility is because I’ve never experienced it. Still stuck at the primary! I guess I feel that we should try and be supportive of all people experiencing loss because it’s hard for everyone. It’s definitely hard with early miscarriages because you don’t get to experience pregnancy as a publicly acknowledged pregnant person.

      Like

  5. My Perfect Breakdown

    Oh yes, I get this! I still remember the one person who always asked me how far along we were after each loss. I HATED them for it, and still do in many ways. It’s an unnessary judgement that serves no purpose but to shame the person whose gone through loss for not being justified in their grief. It’s cruel. I’m sorry you were put through that!

    Liked by 2 people

    • Nara

      Thank you! I can’t even begin to imagine what a tough time you had with all your losses. I really felt aggrieved being asked how far I was along, because it felt like I had to justify how much that baby was wanted. She actually went on to say she “assumed” we just didn’t want children etc etc and when I said you shouldn’t assume, she said that’s all you could do when you don’t have the information! I asked whether we should tell everyone we were trying! Ridiculous! Some people are just doofuses and the reason I’m glad to have taken a break from FB!

      Like

  6. thegriefdiariesblog

    Yep, I totally 100% agree. With 2 missed miscarriages it’s hard to know what age I should give, and because they are so early (8 & 9 weeks) you immediately feel like you need to justify your grief. When in all reality they should be defending our right to grieve even if the baby was the size of a grape and you only knew about it for a month or so.
    And secondary infertility or even a miscarriage while trying for a subsequent child is different. Not to diminish their loss but they still have (at least) one child, and I think it’s only natural to feel that way towards them because they have exactly what we’ve lost. No, it may not be right or compassionate to feel that way but it’s the way it goes.
    I hope you enjoy the rest of your staycation 🙂

    Liked by 1 person

    • Nara

      Thank you! Staycation is very enjoyable although I’m in danger of turning into a blob! Enjoying the lie ins! ☺️

      I’m sorry you’ve had to go through two miscarriages. I really am scared to have another which is why we did all the tests to try and minimise the risks. Although I’m also scared that IVF 2 just won’t work! It’s such an emotional rollercoaster.

      I think you’re right in explaining how I feel about secondary infertility- I really want what they have! Which is strange as it appears that those people are sad about having what we desperately want. I think the way to think about it is they aren’t grieving the child they have but the child they possibly won’t have… I really try to be compassionate about it even though it is hard to get my head around it. Mamajo in her comment above explains it very well. X

      Like

  7. RJ

    It’s so upsetting when people ask how far along you were with your miscarriages. It’s like they are less worse if you are less far along. People seem to forget that not only do you grieve the loss of your baby, but you’re also grieving the loss of all your dreams for that child. I think that is universal within any pregnancy loss (although I cannot begin to imagine losses other than the ones I’ve been through. As you say, a still birth or a further among loss would probably crush me). I’m sorry you had to deal with this.

    Very wonderful perspective as usual. Thank you!

    Liked by 1 person

    • Nara

      Yes, I think that’s it. I’m not grieving the 6 and a bit “ball of cells” or the 9 and a bit week miscarriage… I’m grieving my baby who I expected to be born in February, and my possibility of being a mother right now.

      I think I should come up with a smarter answer to the question but I haven’t been able to yet! Maybe “Yes I do mind as I don’t think it is relevant!” Unfortunately I don’t really want to rock the boat like that! 😉

      Liked by 1 person

  8. dinksbydefault

    I am catching up on reading…. So 1) congrats on the new job, and 2) you are NOT being unreasonable, secondary infertility is in no way “apples to apples” with miscarriage (seriously, wtf?), 3) people who have time to notice you are not on Facebook as much as you used to be really should work on getting lives of their own 😉

    Liked by 1 person

    • Nara

      Thank you! I do think I can be a bit unreasonable at times. Grief does funny things to people! And comparisons don’t really help. I did say to that friend that I wasn’t going to take her up on her kind offer (to tell me about the resource for secondary infertility) because I didn’t feel like it was exactly the same situation! So I think she got the message! As for FB, I used to be on it a lot… A few people have noticed but I find myself missing it less and less!

      Liked by 1 person

  9. libraryowl33

    Oh wow, some people have no filter. What a horrid person! As for secondary infertility, I can imagine how hard it must be to explain to your child begging for a sibling that it can’t happen, but I agree it’s not on par with possibly never being able to have a child at all (or losing Pizza Baby). I’ve shared my IF journey with many of my friends, and they are actually a bit jealous of the support network we have with each other. Most support groups are really a guise where you actually compare lives with other people and try to outdo them. That doesn’t happen for us and I’m glad for it, and I’m glad for you. *hugs*

    Liked by 2 people

  10. theskyandback

    I always detest the how far along were you question, too! And I always felt the need to say something like, “I was only x weeks, but it still sucked.” Like why do I feel the need to justify my loss to that person? And as far as secondary infertility goes, well, your friend was really dumb to say that to you. As others have so eloquently said it was an asinine thing to say.

    However, I’m not sure why people in general feel the need to say one thing is worse than the other. Everyone’s pain is unique to them. Secondary infertility, and particularly pregnancy loss, is the worst thing I’ve ever gone through. It ruined my job, it seriously strained my marriage and I’ve completely lost my sense of self. Should I not have let these things happen? Should I have just been a better person like mamajo and allowed my gratitude for the child I have carry me through with more grace? Maybe. I’d venture even to say probably. But a loss is a loss and it’s completely devastating. It doesn’t matter if you have a child, it doesn’t make it any less painful to have a miscarriage and bleed out your baby on the bathroom floor or whatever. That baby was still loved and wanted and treasured. In fact, just like the “How far along were you” question, another thing I hated was when people said to me, “Well at least you have Lettie.” As if that somehow negated the losses or made them better. It didn’t. I still lost babies. Are there worse things that could have happened to me? Oh my gosh, absolutely. I know I could have had it (and could still have it) far, far worse. But damn, those losses still hurt. And am I grateful that I have my daughter? Of course! I completely acknowledge that it is a priveledge to have a child and that others would give anything for that. I know this and I am grateful every single day. But loss is still loss and pain is still pain, and I wish we could all just support each other instead of comparing. And you basically say that exact thing in the end of your post, so I’m not even sure why I’m feeling the need to chime in here.

    Liked by 2 people

    • Nara

      Hey, I agree. I was kind of trying to check my own reaction to being compared with secondary infertility and being like “nooo my pain is much worse!” – it isn’t. There isn’t an ability to switch off or dial down grief because it’s considered less grievable. I’m sorry that you experienced that and it sounds horrible, and especially having to go through that whilst also having Lettie, it must be a rollercoaster of emotions and not wanting to upset her. I can only imagine that. Pain IS still pain. And that’s why a lot of us are here, and I’m grateful that we have this community of people who know what it is like and who can empathise and offer friendship. X

      Liked by 1 person

      • theskyandback

        Gosh, wouldn’t it be amazing if there was a dial-down button for grief? Man, I would love that! I think you should patent that invention immediately. I am so grateful for this community too. I truly don’t know what I would have done without the support of you and the other amazing ladies on here. Xoxo.

        Liked by 1 person

  11. notpregnantinrezza

    As others have said, it’s absolutely not okay for someone to ask such an insensitive and unnecessary. I totally agree with the evils of Facebook too. Now I just unfollow people who post their baby pictures or constantly refer to being a mother. We don’t need to be constantly exposed to that stuff even if others wouldn’t get it.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Nara

      People are dumbasses sometimes! 😉 That’s why I avoid some of them! A break from FB has been really rather satisfying. I do miss some people though so I may go back on and unfollow everyone apart from them!

      Liked by 1 person

  12. Nara

    Ah thank you. I haven’t really mentioned infertility to a lot of my friends IRL… A few but not loads. I have mentioned the blog to a couple but I’d find it weird if they went looking for it! 😂 But I definitely think it is a good thing… Really I don’t know what I’d have done and how I would have felt to not have people to talk with about this. My blogfriends are amazing! And understand what it’s like. That’s a massive comfort. X

    Like

  13. EmilyMaine

    The thing is, it’s all relative isn’t it? And anyone who has suffered the loss of an infant AND a miscarriage (sadly those people are out there) will tell you that they were both hideously awful experiences. As a secondary infertility sufferer I was exceptionally mindful of the fact that I did already have a little blessing, an opportunity to be a mum. I do think the agony must be harder for those who haven’t had any children at all. No, it is not a competition but there is a sense of loss there that I don’t believe I have the same grasp on given that I have had both a baby and the opportunity to parent. It is shit that people aren’t better equipped to deal with these situations though. I mean, why the fuck is she telling you that secondary infertility is just as bad, you know. Far out. She is trying to seem understanding and across it all, I think? That’s me trying to view the situation with grace but I don’t do that very well so I’ll just call her a unit and be done with it!

    Liked by 1 person

    • Nara

      Absolutely! (Abso-f*in-lutely! © Potty mouth!) I think it is pointless to compare, really… Even though it’s the trigger for my post. For one thing I probably didn’t realise how awful miscarriage was until I had one. (It is not like a heavy period! I have those every month!) And for another, it simply doesn’t help to only give credence to things we think are “worth” grieving. The whole thing is nuts really… Everyone’s grief is their own, and valid. I remember when my cat died that people almost thought it was a joke (because it’s “just a cat”) and I was absolutely devastated and cried for about 2 weeks. I don’t even want to think about if/when my dog dies. (He won’t – he’s immortal.)
      As for my friend, I always knew she had the tact of… Someone not very tactful (after all, she understands infertility with her 2 naturally conceived children, uh huh) which is why I never told her about our fertility problems. I kind of wanted to shut her up by telling her about the miscarriage, but that backfired! 😁
      (Loving the “unit” thing btw, is that an Aussie insult?!)

      Liked by 1 person

    • Nara

      Thank you… I am fine really. I’m just glad I have this blog to vent on and a community of amazing blogfriends, as I’d probably go a bit mental without! 😉 Thanks for the support! xx

      Liked by 1 person

  14. MrsD

    Very well written- so much of what you wrote resonates with my own experiences as well. I always feel like my loss is somehow “less than” because it was “only” 9 weeks. I hate that it seems like that baby doesn’t seem to matter just because he didn’t live long enough. And I feel the same way about secondary infertility- I believe that it really is awful, but at the same time there’s that little voice in my head that wants to scream “but you already HAVE a healthy child!” I have to remind myself frequently that grief is not a competition- and I can’t measure other people’s feelings against my own experiences. But it’s pretty hard to do, just the same.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Nara

      Thank you. I’m glad it’s not just me (but sorry it’s not just me, too). It does seem weird that people want to check how much grief should be allowed, almost. I said to my friend that it was 10 weeks along but it was more like a year as we were going through IVF. And then I think people go “oh well IVF, you expect there to be problems” or whatever, and it’s not helpful at all! It is tough when you feel compared to remember that comparing grief doesn’t really help. It doesn’t help me to feel that someone else’s suffering is worse than mine – it just makes me feel sadder that such horrible things exist in the world. And it doesn’t help to feel that someone else’s suffering is easier than mine, because it doesn’t change the facts of my experience. So better off trying not to compare, really, and just support others and allow ourselves to be supported! Thank goodness I started blogging is all I can say… I feel like I would not have had anyone to talk with about this if I hadn’t. X

      Liked by 1 person

  15. circumstance227

    Having never been pregnant, I’m not going to comment on the major part of this post except to say what I always tell my daughters: “Your feelings are never right or wrong or good or bad. They are what they are. How you act on them is what matters.” Seems like you found a good way to work through the feelings.
    Hampton Court looks awesome – how long is the trip from London to there?

    Like

    • Nara

      Thanks… That’s great advice! I agree it’s about what you do – it’s harder to control how you feel.

      Hampton Court is pretty close to London actually – you just get the train out of Waterloo and I think it’s maybe half an hour or three quarters or something – I didn’t measure the time! I lose time on holidays! It’s really easy though – you can use Oyster/contactless for the train so you don’t even need to buy a separate ticket. The palace is only 5 min walk from the train station at the other end. It’s a great day out!

      Like

  16. 30yr old nothing

    Ah I learn something everyday. I know in the past I’ve ask how far along people were after a miscarriage. I didn’t say “Oh well, that’s nothing then” but I do think that I felt for them more if they were further along. Thanks for opening my eyes.
    And I was just talking to a friend, today, about how my life isn’t all that bad except for this one giant stain. I’ve had a very easy go of it so far. I’m glad you’re enjoying your staycation!!

    Like

    • Nara

      Yes, I’m sure I’ve been guilty of asking or thinking that in the past… I don’t know. I know that there were lots of things I didn’t really think about before I went through them. I don’t know if it’s something people ask just because they don’t know what to say.

      I think I’m a bit like you in that I don’t feel life is too bad either! We all have our stuff… I’m finally moving on in my job, which is nice. And I sort of feel like if we never have a baby, we’ll still be okay. It would be sad but we would get through it. The real question is when to give up, but that’s a subject for another post!

      Liked by 1 person

  17. thecommonostrich

    After my mom died after being in the hospital for over a year, people would say things like “Well, at least you got to say good bye.” Which enraged me because it was one of the most painful years of my life and of hers. There was no silver f*cking lining. What this whole idiotic line of reasoning made me realize is… There is no good way to lose someone you love. If you loved that person for 10 weeks, 10 years, or a lifetime. It is misery, and there are no mitigating factors that make it better.

    I think that when people try to draw comparisons, they are trying to let you know that they understand. It’s a way that women in particular relate to one another. (There are studies I could bore you with about how this is a socialized response in girls and women, but I won’t.) What makes all this “I know how you feel thing” more frustrating is that there really are few people who know what you’re feeling. Everyone’s grief over any kind of loss is different. The best thing any of us can do is to lean in and listen.

    (This wisdom brought to you by years of moronic conversations with well-intended but ultimately insensitive people.)

    Like

  18. Recurrently Unlucky

    After my third loss (and over 2y of ttc), my sister told me she understood how I felt because it took her so long to conceive (it actually took her 6 months). Needless to say I didn’t talk to her for several weeks after that. Comparing our pain get us nowhere, we really should focus on supporting each other instead.
    So many people has dismissed my grief due to my miscarriages being early, I really think it’s the most hurtful comment people can make to me. In a way, early miscarriages can be more isolating because we need to grieve alone, with very little support and understanding. It sucks.
    Your staycation seems great, hope you enjoy the last few days!

    Like

  19. mymiraclerainbow

    It is hard. I know! Because of this, i stopped announcing pregnancies to anyone after my second loss. Only me and my husband knew about our 3rd and 4th pregnancies, and both of them resulted in miscarriages. Glad that you had an awesome easter break!. 😊

    Like

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